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If a VFR pilot can fly practice approaches under the hood with an appropriately rated safety pilot, does it follow that the same pilot can request and fly practice approaches without a safety pilot if they are not using a view limiting device?

Granted there would be a limit to the value of this kind of practice, but it could be used, for example, to practice flying approaches with a new gps/autopilot.

You can request a practice approach if its a controlled airport and if its a non controlled then it doesn't matter as long as you make the needed position calls

Michael,

If you reference Chapter 5-1-2 in the AIM you'll get a good idea about how the FAA feels about practicing IFR even in VFR conditions. There's also a reference to FAR Part 91.109.

I recommend to all of my clients who earn their instrument rating to practice IFR procedures as much as possible to stay sharp. IFR skills are the first to suffer when not used, and unfortunately, they're also the skills that will get you out of the soup safely. I heard a great expression from an examiner once...

"Panic in the air is an irreversible process"

Stay sharp! A great benefit of using a practice instrument approach to land is that it will allow you to get a feel for how LITTLE control correction is required to get yourself back onto that final approach course. Ask any CFII what a new client's biggest weakness during the early phases of practicing approaches is, and they all say "overcontrolling the airplane".

_________________
Inst: "So how far out so we make our initial call-up?"
Student: "10 miles"
Inst: "OK, let's make that call"
Student: "Airport Traffic, Cessna 172, 3 miles east..."

Thanks guys. I found more details in AIM 4-3-21 and the following in another forum:

"It is true that a non-instrument rated pilot or a non-current instrument rated pilot cannot fly as PIC under IFR. It is also true that when you put on a view limiting device (foggles or hood) that you need a safety pilot (any pilot that is rated in the aircraft with category, class and type if required with a current medical) which doesn't have to be a CFII.

With all of this said and understood, you can as a non-instrument rated pilot (student or otherwise) fly into a towered airport (primary class B airport, for example) and request an instrument approach (with or without vectors to final) and fly the approach as published with no other person in the plane. You have to maintain VFR and you MUST look for other traffic. This is totally legal and ATC will be happy to help if they have the time.

Some might say that this is dangerous. And you don't have a hood on, so what's the point? Well, the point is that you are setting up the approach, tuning frequencies, identifying signals, flying the glideslope/localizer/VOR/course, getting clearances/vectors from ATC for the practice approach. Even though I am rated and current, I do this whenever I fly VFR and get the chance. If a safety pilot is in the other seat, I put on a hood then I can log it as simulated instrument time."

This was a very timely topic for me so thanks for getting it out there. I got my PPL in August and have been flying around a lot for fun, but am planning on going after my IFR ticket starting early next year. I was wondering if I could practice instrument approaches in VMC by myself, and now I have the answer.

Thanks!

moski - I strongly recommend at leat a couple of flights with an instructor before taking a whack at approaches as you'll want to be sure you're practicing good habits instead of bad. I'm not an instructor but I'm sure Anais, Jason or Starving would back that up.

The approach environement can quickly overwhelm and is easier to navigate with an experienced second pilot on board who knows what to request and how to request it.

MS Flight Sim is a great way to run approaches and hone enroute procedures and can save you a lot of time and money in your training. I know rated pilots who still use it as a way to practice approaches that they haven't recently flown or before heading to unfamiliar destinations.

Jason - do you think there's enough fodder for a podcast on effective tools and techniques for practicing IFR in support of more structured training?

Hi all,

An interesting topic as both sides have benefits. As a private pilot, the initial stages of IFR are critical. You want to start on the right foot, develop good habits, but also have a full awareness of your surroundings. Communication, procedures, but also traffic. This means remaining outside the cockpit. Unfortunately, single pilot IFR in VFR conditions require so much time inside the often not enough time is spent looking for traffic. For that very reason, it pays to have another pilot.

In theory, great idea. However, I would absolutley get started with an instructor, and then with his/her guidance utilize your time alone. Also, find other Instrument Rated pilots, or those working on their ticket. Back-seating is tremendously useful. IFR is about procedures and you can learn alot by just observing. Start working with your flight sim, and maybe your club has one? (a lot cheaper too!)

Let us know if you have any more questions. IFR is amazing, I'm really excited to hear that you are going for it.

a

To Michael, Anais et al,

Yes, agree wholeheartedly that I wouldn't try anything like this without some good instruction first. Heck, I've only flown real IFR once, and that was on the return trip from my "ticket to ride" where my CFI was with me and the weather closed in. (Actually we still had to overnight because of storms...but that's another story entirely!)

But once I do start training this could be an interesting tool to use, with discretion. And I also have X-Plane so I expect to make liberal use of that as well. Thanks!