Click Here to Return to

Hi Everyone,

This is my first post here and I figured I would lead with a question. I'm currently saving the money I need to get my private ticket, I'm also trying to learn all the in's and out's of airplane ownership. This week while my wife and I were staying with my parents on a trip to see my little sister graduate from collage my dad picked up one of my aerotrader's and started thumbing through it. Now he has been bitten by the aviation bug and wants to go and get our tickets together.

To make a long story short and get to the actual question, I was looking and buying a Cessna 152 just to build hours on after I get my license, but now that my dad's interested he wants to go in together on a plane and get something a little bigger and a little faster. Now I'm all for this but I’m not familiar with the pitfalls of starting off with a larger aircraft. I've been reading on line and the biggest deterrent I've found so far is insurance. Out of the planes we have looked at it seems like a 6 place plane will work the best for our family and business needs. Is starting with a plane this size a bad idea? What advice does every one have? I've been trying to read everything I can on plane ownership this past year but everything I was reading was geared more to the smaller 2 seat planes.

Thanks,

Jason Imboden

The most important thing you can do first is to define your plane's mission. That is, what kind of flying are you going to be doing 90% of the time? If you find a plane that fits that mission, great. Rent for the other 10% of the time. No plane can do everything - they all have their compromises, the challenge is finding the best fit for your unique needs.

Consider the type of flights, equipment capability, the number of passengers, your payload requirements, speed / efficiency requirements, and whether you care if the plane is certified or homebuilt.

Flights: Cross country or local sight-seeing?

Equipment: Are you going to be poking holes in clouds? I.e. does the plane need to be IFR equipped?

Passengers: Are you going to be flying with 3 or more passengers as a typical mission (that's actually more rare than typical,) or are you flying solo or taking a buddy up?

Payload: Lots of luggage or gear, or just a day pack?

Speed / efficiency: Mostly, higher speed comes at the cost of more fuel. (There are some quick, efficient planes, but they also have their compromises.) If you're just tooling around, there are really great planes out there that are a bit slower than the x-country speed demons.

Certified / homebuilt: Do you care if there's a big "EXPERIMENTAL" sticker on it? Are you comfortable trusting a private individual versus a factory? FAA certification may mean that the design has a lot of proven testing behind it, and its construction processes adhered to industry standards. However, there are some really AWESOME homebuilt planes of proven designs with excellent capability, performance, and workmanship, so do not dismiss them without thoughtful consideration.

When you finally do find a model, JOIN THE TYPE CLUB for that model. Owners/operators of the specific model/brand are an invaluable source when taking the reins of ownership. Do some homework before you sign a check. Have a trusted mechanic (perhaps recommended by the type club) perform a thorough pre-buy inspection on the plane, and be reasonable when you negotiate how discrepancies are resolved.

Lastly, try to stick to your neck of the woods. Sure, there may be a great plane across the country, but are you going to travel there to look at it? (I wouldn't dream of buying a plane without touching it myself first.)

Hope this gives you some stuff to think about. Plane ownership is a very rewarding and freeing experience. Good luck!

_________________
Jeff Klug
RV-8A prebuild

Thanks for the advice. The plane will be used for family trips and for weekend golf trips, most trips will be around 300 to 400 miles at the far end. Golf trips will have clubs for 2 or 3 along with 2 or 3 adults and clothing for 2 days. The rest of the long trips will be around 300 miles with 4 to 6 adults and luggage. I'm really only looking at planes that are IFR ready since at least one of us will go back and get or IFR cert. if not both of us. I want to stay away from home built or experimental. I have so far narrowed it down to a few planes that seem to fit the bill, the A36 Bonanza, the Cessna 210, the Piper lance, and the Piper Saratoga.

Once again, thanks for the help.

Jason Imboden

While any of those planes would likely be a fine choice for your mission... the insurance costs will likely eat you alive (if you *can* get insured).

Some will say that it is *possible* to train in and get insured in fast complex aircraft like the ones you mention, it's only money afterall. Heck, the JAL pilots in Napa train in A36's. Still, personally, I think your "plan A" of building time in a trainer was wise... baby steps until you can walk seems to make the most sense to me.

Anyway, that's my relatively low time non-CFI opionion, FWIW. I'm sure the CFI's around here have other tidbits of advice to offer.

_________________
Jeff Klug
RV-8A prebuild

Hi Midwest,

Welcome to the forum! Your question is a good one and comes up quite often. I understand that you are planning for the future as well as considering the present and so with that here's two sides of the coin.

First of all, Jeff, I think you gave some great advice. Weighing out your objective, and understanding that there is no "one" airplane that can do everything. I definitely think it's a good idea to keep exploring type, make/model websites and gather information. Pro's/con's.

With that said, what is your objective right now? Training and your private pilot ticket. This is also your father's immediate objective. Consider that after you get your ticket, you will have freedom, but when a complex airplane is in consideration, and IFR training, ...a considerably longer time is required to get to the point that these trips are reasonable and safe. Training always takes longer than anticipated, and the learning curve is already immense. If you can afford to start with a trainer, start there. To add in high performance/complex right away, is stacking a lot on one plate. Get solid with entry level, get some experience, and then expand from there.

Now this not to say you can't start training in these planes. It will just take more time, more experience...which leads to more overall experience in your own aircraft. How far a long are you in training?

Whatever you decide, with the right training, you will get to the experience level to do the trips you want in the plane you want. Good luck and let us know what you decide.

a

Thanks for the advice, I think I'm going to try and talk him into a 152 or something around that vintage. I figure it will take at least 18 months for both of us to get our license and one of us to get IFR certified, the small trainer will give us both a chance to practice the basics of VFR flight and help us build time before we jump into something as complex as the planes I listed above. Plus on the positive side, starting with an older plane like that means we won’t suffer a loss in value of the plane so we can probably sell it off when the time comes without much of a loss if any at all.

Now I just need to convince my wife that this is a safe hobby, probably safer than me buying a motorcycle.

Jason Imboden

I think 152 is a great idea...and absolutely safer than a motorcycle
Tell your wife to come and talk to us, we will vouch for that.
have fun looking for a plane,

a

Yeah, I would agree with that. I have a friend who owns an A36 Bonanza and aside from the operating and ownership costs, he was saying that you can't get insured in one unless you have 200 hours and an instrument rating. By contrast, I have another friend who owns an older 172 and she said that it's very affordable to operate and her annuals are usually right around $500. You can carry 3 adults and some luggage in that.

_________________
-PJ

PPL ASEL as of 8/15/2007

"Flying is a lot like riding a bicycle, it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes!" -Captain Rex Kramer, from the movie "Airplane!"