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Hey Everyone,

It's been a while since I've posted here - I got really busy at work and had to cut back on my forum browsing...

Anyway, there was something in the latest video podcast about the Non-Towered Airport Entry that I take issue with. You said that on exiting the runway, you should announce, "N12345 is clear of the active runway 25" (emphasis added). There is no such thing as an "Active" runway at a non-towered airport. "Active" runways are designated by ATC in a towered environment. According to the AIM chapter 4-1-9(g)(6)(a), the phraseology should be, "Strawn traffic Apache Two Two Five Zulu clear of runway one seven Strawn."

_________________
-PJ

PPL ASEL as of 8/15/2007

"Flying is a lot like riding a bicycle, it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes!" -Captain Rex Kramer, from the movie "Airplane!"

I'm glad he did mention the runway number, but I'd love to abolish the use of "active" when making the announcement. Too often I hear it used at an airport with multiple runways and that is really confusing, annoying and doesn't help safety. I think it's just pure laziness as they can't seem to put the effort into remembering what runway they just landed on.

Ron

Wow - I think you just hit the nail on the head. I find myself embarrassed almost every time I clear the runway at a non-towered field and realize that I completely forgot the runway that I just landed on.

Something to work on...

Case and point taken, we do not have the authority of ATC to designate an 'active' runway. The intention of the video tip is to indicate where a pilot should make their calls on a non-towered airport, not the specific transmissions. Following the position of each call, it is added that transmissions should contain the runway number and direction of traffic pattern. The emphasis is on clearly stating your position and intention. I hope that clarifies things.
a

Anais,

I'm not trying to badger the point or be really nit-picky here, but I have to say that your last response seems like a bit of a cop-out. I understand that the point of the video was to illustrate when to make your calls, but to use that as an excuse for improper phraseology is kinda bogus. People look at these things to get tips on how to improve their everyday flying (that's kinda the point of you doing this ), and like it or not, they will repeat things the way they hear them. When they hear a Certified Flight Instructor, who by many is regarded to be THE authority (not just this specific CFI, but all CFI's in general) on what is to be proper technique, use the term, "Clear of the Active runway 15", they will think that is okay and correct as well.

Don't get me wrong, I love the podcasts and all that you guys do, and I know that you work hard on these things and you definitely aren't doing it for the money. But, at the same time, if you're going to put educational materials out there, then you have a duty to demonstrate proper procedure, IMO. Like I said, I hate to nit-pick on this further, but after all, this is called The Finer Points, is it not?

_________________
-PJ

PPL ASEL as of 8/15/2007

"Flying is a lot like riding a bicycle, it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes!" -Captain Rex Kramer, from the movie "Airplane!"

Morning PJ,

Thanks for you feedback. The video-tip in no way was intended for viewers to think that 'clear of the active' in a transmission is acceptable, nor am I endorsing that. We absolutely want to be accurate, so if there is any misinterpretations, let's change it.
a

Thank you Anais. I'm sorry to make such a big deal out of this, but I know you guys do want to be as accurate as possible. Keep up the great work and I look forward to watching the next Video Tip!

_________________
-PJ

PPL ASEL as of 8/15/2007

"Flying is a lot like riding a bicycle, it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes!" -Captain Rex Kramer, from the movie "Airplane!"

BTW,

Any time I make a reply to your posts, and I try to submit the posting, I get a message that there was an error in sending email.

_________________
-PJ

PPL ASEL as of 8/15/2007

"Flying is a lot like riding a bicycle, it's just a lot harder to put baseball cards in the spokes!" -Captain Rex Kramer, from the movie "Airplane!"

Hi all,

Thanks for pointing this out. I was not aware that the word 'active' was used strictly by ATC, at tower controlled fields. So, it's always great to learn.

I do want to emphasize, however, that the sentence in the tip immediately following the example describes the message we are working to convey.

"... you should always include the direction of the pattern and the number of the runway you are using"

this is what we really want to leave you with. So that all calls include the direction and number. For example,

"Half Moon bay traffic, N989MA is turning right base, runway 30, Half Moon bay"

Notice that the name of the field, the direction of flow and runway in use is included in every call. So the clear call would be

"Half Moon Bay, N989MA, is clear of (the active) runway 30, Half Moon Bay"

Thanks for the feedback, we are working to provide helpful and accurate tips.

jason

_________________
"To Live is To Fly" - Townes VanZandt
www.thefinerpoints.net
jason@thefinerpoints.net

Also ... I just wanted to add that we really appreciate the time and effort put into this kind of feedback. We are interested in the Finer Points and in maintaining the highest level of instruction possible. Your critical feedback shows that the videos engage you, get you thinking and ... well ... at these that you're watching.

Thanks again. I figure if it gets by our forum, it's a finer point.

jason

_________________
"To Live is To Fly" - Townes VanZandt
www.thefinerpoints.net
jason@thefinerpoints.net