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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 9:06 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2006 3:42 pm
Posts: 466
Location: San Francisco, California
Any thoughts on O Teacher, My Teacher?


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 Post subject: Some Doubts
PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2006 9:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:01 pm
Posts: 23
WOW :shock: Well it made me wish I could at least fly with Mr. Henrie at least one time to see his technique and method of teaching, I e-mailed him and he promptly replied, he definitely has a lot of flying wisdom and experience that's for sure.


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 15, 2006 2:35 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:19 pm
Posts: 104
Location: The Land of IMC, New England
I'm working with a client who is suffering from the very same problem that Gordon's asian student was. I cover up all of the instruments and he does fine, but when he gets them back, it's chaos.

Mostly it's an over-controlling in the flare issue, but the true problem, and listen up all CFIs, is that this guy had his PRIMACY BUSTED BIG TIME by an inexperienced junior instructor.

That instructor was terminated for the good of the industry, but unfortunately for the client, he doesn't know which way is up in the pattern. I could use some more of Gordon's mojo with this guy.

I'm disappointed though that I ordered his book on June 2nd and it's now the 15th and I still haven't received it.

_________________
Inst: "So how far out so we make our initial call-up?"
Student: "10 miles"
Inst: "OK, let's make that call"
Student: "Airport Traffic, Cessna 172, 3 miles east..."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:19 pm
Posts: 104
Location: The Land of IMC, New England
I received Gordon's book and it is AWESOME. If you're a CFI you MUST own it, and if you're a non-CFI-yet pilot, it will give you a great insight to the types of things that CFIs will be looking for and working to help you with. A great read and worth every penny.

-Dan

_________________
Inst: "So how far out so we make our initial call-up?"
Student: "10 miles"
Inst: "OK, let's make that call"
Student: "Airport Traffic, Cessna 172, 3 miles east..."


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Jun 28, 2006 4:56 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:59 am
Posts: 124
Location: Atlanta, GA
Dan, a quick question. What did you mean in your initial post about the student "having his primacy busted" by his former instructor. I'm not sure I understand the use of the term primacy in this context. Can you elaborate a bit?

Thanks!

Jeff


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PostPosted: Thu Jun 29, 2006 7:39 am 
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Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2006 3:19 pm
Posts: 104
Location: The Land of IMC, New England
Jeff,

I won't bog the post down with definitions from the FAA's "Fundamentals of Instruction" book, but in a nutshell the term "Primacy" refers to the concept of the things you learn FIRST are the things you remember most.
If you've ever been in the company of kids, they are a great example of Primacy. They remember EVERYTHING you say.

In aviation, you'll hear the term "bust" or "busted" used as a general expression to say "hey, you did something wrong". Examples are:

"Oh, he busted Class C airspace"

"You busted your visibility and cloud clearance minimums for this airspace"

...and the big one all budding CFI's will hear: "Don't bust primacy with new students"

I used the expression "busted primacy" in a way to infer that the client's previous instructor would teach concepts that did not exist in any aviation publications. In an effort to gain the admiration of his client, he would make up details "on the fly" that were unsubstantiated and had no way of being proven or not proven. I once overheard the instructor tell the student "You can NOT chop the power to idle or you will lose airflow over the elevator and it will stall!"
This is untrue and aerodynamically impossible. The student KNEW it, but he accepted what the CFI said because (as he later told me) "He's a CFI"

A simple example of Primacy being busted would be if during the early stages of flight training, an instructor were to say "We recover from a stall by ADDING FULL POWER!"
Now every time someone asks that student "So how do we recover from a stall?" their answer will be "Full power!"
Opening the throttle fully might be a part of the recovery procedure, but a wing becomes unstalled when the angle of attack is reduced.

Just because someone holds their CFI certificate doesn't mean they're a GOOD CFI. :roll: If you have the chance to fly with multiple instructors, you will definitely experience this.

As an instructor to a new client, I remind myself constantly to say as little as necessary, and the things that I must say, I must be concise and correct.

Jason does a phenomenal job of utilizing the concept of Primacy in his podcasts. He speaks slowly, he says only enough as necessary to make his points, and everything he says can be reinforced with an official publication or some plain old common sense.

On a sidenote, the client I made reference to did complete his first solo last Friday. The trick that did it was when I discovered that the previous instructor had performed NO power-idle simulated-emergency approach to land exercises with him (which made sense as it would defy his tenet that airplanes cannot approach to land with the power at idle lest they stall). We performed just four power-off landings, and each one was 100% better than the one before it. Once he acquired the confidence in the airplane gliding at idle-power, the solo was a BREEZE and his landings looked GREAT!

Let me know if I can be more specific. Thanks for asking Jeff!

_________________
Inst: "So how far out so we make our initial call-up?"
Student: "10 miles"
Inst: "OK, let's make that call"
Student: "Airport Traffic, Cessna 172, 3 miles east..."


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